[Dev] Last call for maintainer before force "Accept" "Submit" (slow progress)

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) tizen at rasterman.com
Thu Apr 3 14:38:05 GMT 2014

On Thu, 03 Apr 2014 14:53:22 +0200 Zofia Abramowska <z.abramowska at samsung.com>

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dev-bounces at lists.tizen.org [mailto:dev-bounces at lists.tizen.org]
> > On Behalf Of Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:20 AM
> > To: Dominig ar Foll
> > Cc: dev at lists.tizen.org
> > Subject: Re: [Dev] Last call for maintainer before force "Accept"
> > "Submit" (slow progress)
> > 
> > On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 18:32:14 +0100 Dominig ar Foll
> > <dominig.arfoll at fridu.net>
> > said:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > After 3 days we have only 3 pending patches which have progressed.
> > > Still 19 to go.
> > > See attached file.
> > > Maintainers, please step up.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > 
> > i can tell you what the problem likely is...
> > 
> > the people you are trying to ping are not even subscribed here. most
> > developers who work on stuff that's related to tizen around me simply
> > are not on any tizen mailing lists. also the email system they are
> > meant to use (webmail) doesn't have filtering, deletes all mail after 2
> > weeks, and has no threading abilities...
> > 
> > they just never know you said anything... :) most likely. so you are
> > shouting at an empty room.
> > 
> > i have a suggestion to cure this.
> > 
> > 1. we require anyone doing any tizen development (especially anyone who
> > has to review or approve something) to be subscribed to this mailing
> > list, and must read it actively. if people want to be involved they
> > need to be contactable and actually respond. they need to know about
> > general discussions etc.
> > 2. given #1, we send out a ping here to EVERYONE that they must respond
> > to on this mailing list. ensure the mail is not just a few lines (make
> > it 50 or 100 lines long) so you see if they READ their email or not (eg
> > if it's more than 2 lines they skip it).
> > 3. wait 2 weeks.
> > 4. everyone who has not responded after 2 weeks gets removed from
> > having any review/maintainer roles. replace those people with some
> > generic maintainer person who does respond, so things can move along.
> > 
> > i've been following this "someone please look at my review" thing for a
> > while now. there are pings here and it regularly fails to get
> > attention. people are not doing their jobs it seems. they don't take
> > their responsibility seriously enough to respond within a reasonable
> > time. i see no alternative but to be harsh at this point. also publish
> > the list of all people removed so there is a bit of public naming and
> > shaming. it's time to learn the hard way.
> > 
> > --
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <tizen at rasterman.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev mailing list
> > Dev at lists.tizen.org
> > https://lists.tizen.org/listinfo/dev
> People sometimes go on vacation/holidays, so this "2 weeks deadline" does
> not really speak to me well, especially when we're talking about naming and
> shaming...

we are getting complaints on no action after just a few days (dominig
complained after 3 days).

2 weeks is pretty generous to just respond to a ping. as a comparison - i just
removed commit access from a bunch of people who haven't committed for more
than 6 months (to an upstream project) -- went over logs to see who has
committed. they had about 3 days to respond to ask to get off the "purge" list.
everyone who wanted off and had a reason responded within that time. 3 days
worked well there.

the point of a ping is to find out which people are not responding quickly and
2 weeks is generous as a margin of "respond quickly". many may newver read this
mailing list or are even subscribed. that means they are unreachable except
directly and personally and a project cant be sustained if everything has to be
a direct personal contact.

> When it comes to maintainers, maybe there should be some mechanism to
> temporarily pass the rights of maintainer to someone else, when he/she is
> not able to fulfill his/her role.

that is not the problem. it's not a temporary thing. it seems to be continual
where things are not being reviewed for many weeks or even months on end. so if
someone happened to go on holiday for 2 weeks, then they can catch up when they
come back. that is not the case here. when it's your job to respond to review
requests in a timely fashion, then you certainly respond within 2 weeks or
ensure someone is responding for you if you will be away for an extended time
(and very few people will be, as most people involved in review here are in
countries where you can barely even take 2 weeks off in an entire year).

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <tizen at rasterman.com>

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