[Dev] Cynara

Jussi Laako jussi.laako at linux.intel.com
Mon Apr 14 12:17:12 GMT 2014

On 12.4.2014 6:09, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> to route you have to see. content + context determines routing. didn't i
> already repeat about grabs, coordinate transformation etc.

No, you don't need to know if I hit 'a' or 'b' on the keyboard to do 
routing. Just as you don't need to decrypt IP packets carrying SSL 
communication to route those.

> people who do this for a living have been down this design path and explored
> it. it doesn't work. it scales horribly. look at x11 shape extension. people who
> have been doing display systems for a long time. like most of their professional
> lives. and that's a lot of years. i agree with them. there isn't just a single
> matrix. it's far more complex than that. you can't do transforms over a bunny

How is this related to anything I type on this keyboard?

I happily trade shaped windows for rectangular boxes for security.

OpenGL also keeps texture transformation data and texture pixmaps 
separate. You upload the pixmap and then tell what kind of 
transformation you want. OpenGL doesn't need to understand if it's 
pixmap of stone surface or pixmap of hand-written letter 'a'. You could 
even encrypt all pixmaps with public key cryptography to GPU's private key.

> mesh - or a sphere, or a curled piece of paper with a single matrix. you need a
> vast detailed mesh. and as animation changes, this mesh keeps changing. handing

Still it's separate from the content.

> graphics is several orders of magnitude more complex and doesn't have a defined
> standard ala tcp/ip that has to be adhered to. it's freeform.

It is not, just check out LTE networking from right from the radio 
signalling layer up to the IP packet layer. The radio DSP algorithms are 
much more complex than your average desktop graphics algorithms. But 
still the DSP layer doesn't and shouldn't understand what happens 
several layers above and vice versa.

> pulse audio sees all the audio data. it goes through it. also routing is
> insanely simpler, and it's pa that defines the routing posibilites and design,

You just think all the audio DSP is insanely simpler because you don't 
know about it or understand it...

Pulse audio sees some of the audio data, but not all. But routing 
decision is made by Murphy without seeing the audio data. But neither 
one understands if I'm listening Mahler or Pink Floyd.

I'm also accessing hw1:0 device directly on Ubuntu for example, 
bypassing pulseaudio for serious music listening cases because otherwise 
pulseaudio would screw up the audio quality. (and most of the time I'm 
using 5.6 MHz DSD audio format which pulseaudio doesn't know anything about)

> you need access to pixel data to know if there is an alpha or transparency area
> and if events are to drop through that area or not. you need access to the

Again, how is this related to keyboard input events. Display server 
spying on my password inputs?

> efforts, the display server has access to all input. be that xorg (and thus any
> x11 client via xinput), or wayland (only the display server has that access,
> and can send/grant/route input to clients as it sees fit based on its policies.

Well, it doesn't have access to my voice control input at least. So I 
can spell out passwords through voice.

And I can also easily isolate it from my password inputs without the 
display server being aware of it at all. (keyboard capture mux at kernel 
input layer level)

> but they will never exist. so you live in a world far away from everyone else
> and far away from tizen. back in the real world, this is not the case, and
> never will be because it's impractical. i think you should just go make your
> own os, and the os you want is not the one the rest of us work on and use. :)

Again, I have it already neatly in form of changes on top of Yocto. :)

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