[Tizen General] Tizen Audio Stack

Counihan, Tom tom.counihan at intel.com
Fri Sep 6 09:07:15 GMT 2013

Hi Patrick,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces at lists.tizen.org [mailto:general-bounces at lists.tizen.org]
> On Behalf Of Patrick Shirkey
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:03 PM
> To: Tizen List
> Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen Audio Stack
> On Thu, September 5, 2013 8:30 pm, Clark, Joel wrote:
> > I know of other Tizen user that would like to see JACK in Tizen, but
> > nobody has volunteered to contribute and maintain a port of JACK to
> > the Tizen audio subsystem.  Any port of JACK would have to complement
> > the existing Tizen audio components and not break working Tizen uses
> > and applications and APIs.
> >
> The JACK Developers will work within the bounds of specified requirements for
> the Tizen Audio stack.
> The existing desktop logic is that when JACK is running PA hands over control of
> the ALSA interface and then optionally attaches to JACK for I/O. Both Pulse and
> GStreamer can connect directly to JACK so allowing consumer apps to continue
> to work while JACK is running is not an issue in that regard.
> IIUC there has not been any specific testing done around the issue of handling
> phone calls while JACK is running on the desktop but that issue has been solved
> for the iOS port. One option is to allow system level commands to
> interrupt/pause/disable JACK and take control of the audio device and the other
> is to *optionally* allow the user to ignore phones calls while JACK is running.
> For professionals the latter is probably more appropriate as it's unlikely a DJ
> would want to have a phone call interrupt them in the middle of a set but for
> people who are just playing with their toys the former is a completely
> reasonable way to handle things.

Do you know if any work has been done by the JACK community to integrate Bluez? Specifically for HFP and A2DP/ARVCP use cases?

> I am assuming that Tizen routes all phone calls through PA and uses the PA API
> to manage that process? I don't think it will be onerous to give PA a method to
> "take over" JACK i/o as the single audio stream. IMO that would be the most
> elegant way to handle the combination of PA and JACK on a communications
> capable device.
> Another option would be for PA to temporarily disconnect JACK from the i/o
> ports and put all running JACK apps into "freewheel" mode while a phone call is
> in process or disable the JACK i/o completely if resources are constrained. In
> that case PA would retake control of the i/o temporarily and then hand it back
> to JACK once the call is finished. I'm not sure how fast and clean that process
> would be but it is technically feasible. We would need to run some tests on the
> switch process but we can discuss on the PA/JACK lists if it is the preferred
> method.
> From the JACK perspective low latency on Tizen requires access to realtime
> capabilities and that PA/GStreamer are configured with JACK support OOTB.
> Can you see any other potential issues from the Tizen perspective? JACK
> Developers are happy to discuss and find a way to gracefully handle them.
> Most of the PA devs are also subscribed to the JACK mailing list and there is no
> problem to initiate these discussions over there too.
> --
> Patrick Shirkey
> Boost Hardware Ltd
> > Regards
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: general-bounces at lists.tizen.org
> > [mailto:general-bounces at lists.tizen.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Shirkey
> > Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 1:31 AM
> > To: Tizen List
> > Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen Audio Stack
> >
> > On Sun, September 1, 2013 9:42 pm, MSvB wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Patrick,
> >>
> >> On Fri., Aug. 30, 2013, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> >>>Reading through the porting docs and I come across this enlightening
> >>>diagram of the Tizen Audio Stack:
> >>>https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Porting_Guide#Audio
> >>>To me it has a glaring hole when compared to this diagram:
> >>>http://linux-audio.com/images/linux-audio-stack.png
> >> Nice catch.
> >>
> >>>[...]
> >> I hope you get traction on this. While I'm not a typical professional
> >> audio user, the use cases for low latency audio as provided by the
> >> Jack project is attractive. And since Tizen has incorporated many
> >> third party projects it would make sense to include Jack, maybe not
> >> in IVI but mobile seems good.
> >>
> >
> > It would be great to see some effort put into running JACK on the
> > sandy bridge platform before it comes to market. JACK has proven to
> > run very well on previous generations of the Atom. See
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yR-fZlm_rg  a demo of the award
> > winning indamixx transmission OS which was running meego at the time.
> >
> > I'm wondering if some of the hesitation towards acceptance of JACK
> > comes from confusion around JACK1 and JACK2. While they are both API
> > compatible
> > JACK1 is written in pure C and JACK2 is written in C++. JACK1 was
> > started first and JACK2 was built out with funding from the French
> > GRAME institute and runs on several platforms including Linux, Mac,
> > Win, iOS.  Work is now being done on JACK3 which will effectively
> > replace JACK1 and JACK2 once it is released. That will be in C++.
> >
> > What we have seen from the Android and the ChromeOS people is instead
> > of working with JACK developers to isolate and fix any specific issues
> > they found for integrating JACK into a mobile stack they have cherry
> > picked certain parts from JACK and left out the really useful stuff
> > like inter app communication, midi, networking, etc... in the process
> > inventing yet another partially useful layer for the Linux Audio stack
> > but not actually addressing the needs of Professional Audio.
> >
> > There is already a Pulse Audio sink for JACK which allows Pulse to
> > connect to JACK. There is also a gstreamer plugin for JACK which
> > allows gstreamer to connect to JACK directly. Pulse can be configured
> > to automatically detect when JACK is running and reconfigure it's
> > outputs to connect to JACK and act as a proxy for apps like browsers
> > or other consumer apps that are written to use pulse audio. JACK can
> > route audio to/from pulse audio and gstreamer apps too. So there is
> > already the ability to magically reconnect the streams when JACK is
> > active. And vice versa when JACK is inactive.
> >
> > In addition JACK provides realtime midi protocol for external
> > controllers and networking for clustering which is very attractive
> > when combined with mobile devices. There is also support for video
> > frame sharing which is a third party fork called jack-video written by
> > salsaman(LiVes) and there is work being done to integrate 3d modelling data
> handling.
> >
> > JACK is supported by all major and nearly all minor open source
> > multimedia apps. Ardour, Qtraktor, Blender, Renoise, EnegyXT just to
> > name a few. JACK is the defacto standard for Professional Open Source
> > Multimedia Production.
> >
> > There is an opportunity to get the open source multimedia community
> > onboard with Tizen as a development platform. There is already support
> > for c, c++ and html5. By far the majority of open source multimedia
> > apps are built in c and c++. Opening up the platform to professional
> > multimedia will bring the attention of some very clever and motivated
> > people from some of the worlds most advanced musical institutions and
> > universities to build out a large selection of high quality
> > professional multimedia tools and assorted toys.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Patrick Shirkey
> > Boost Hardware Ltd
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General mailing list
> > General at lists.tizen.org
> > https://lists.tizen.org/listinfo/general
> >
> --
> Patrick Shirkey
> Boost Hardware Ltd
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