[Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping 32bit linux support

Clark, Joel joel.clark at intel.com
Mon Sep 23 11:06:05 GMT 2013


Make sure you updated survey includes clarification of the need for using Tizen as the developer's host distro, making Tizen self-hosted, removing the need for any other distro in the Tizen development process.

Regards
Joel


-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces at lists.tizen.org [mailto:general-bounces at lists.tizen.org] On Behalf Of Jian-feng Ding
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:18 AM
To: Artem Bityutskiy; Zhang, Qiang Z
Cc: general at lists.tizen.org
Subject: Re: [Tizen General] Tizen platform development tools survey : dropping 32bit linux support

Artem,

Thanks for your feedback and clarification. We will update the survey questions to avoid confusions.

thanks
- jf.ding

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:42:34PM +0300, Artem Bityutskiy wrote:
> Hi JF,
> 
> there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to 
> do and why.
> 
> And frankly, the announcement is guilty in that. You did not carefully 
> and nicely explain what exactly you do, and why exactly, and which 
> users would be affected and how exactly.
> 
> I suggest you guys to come up with a new good survey description. Make 
> sure it answers the above questions. Also, go through this thread, 
> find out what confused people, and make sure you have a Q&A section in 
> your new survey, and the section clears the confusion.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> P.S. What I found out from talking to people, _not_ from the announce:
> 
> 1. The intended change _only_ affects mic and gbs, nothing else.
> 2. The change is about stopping producing i586 mic and gbs builds. 
> Other tools will still have i586 builds.
> 3. The change _does not_ mean that mic/gbs won't be able to generate
> i586 images.
> 4. On the opposite, x86_68 mic/gbs _will_ be able to generate i586 
> images.
> 5. So this will only limit people in choosing their _build host_, not 
> the _target Tizen OS_.
> 
> Right?
> 
> On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 17:33 +0800, Jian-feng Ding wrote:
> > Carsten,
> > 
> > All the embarrassings you are talking about just does not exist :)
> > 
> > Current Tizen pkg build is self-hosted, both ARM and IA, both 32bit 
> > and 64bit.
> > 
> > Current problem we are talking about is the developers' working 
> > distro, not the Tizen runtime:)
> > 
> > thanks
> > - jf.ding
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 06:23:37PM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:28:06 +0300 Leon Anavi <leon at anavi.org> said:
> > > 
> > > > Hi Daniel, Carsten, All,
> > > > 
> > > > On 2013-09-23 03:46, Daniel Juyung Seo wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler
> > > > >> imagine if all the engineers and executives etc. at bmw drove 
> > > > >> fords because "bmw's can't manage to get us to the office 
> > > > >> without breaking down".
> > > > > 
> > > > > Awesome analogy.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am also against dropping 32 bit system support for dev tools.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I bet many people I know use 32 bit system yet.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The example with the cars is nice but I don't think it's very 
> > > > appropriate. In my opinion it is fine to drop 32-bit support 
> > > > although I still keep 32-bit distributions on some of my older computers.
> > > > 
> > > > Today nobody uses 16-bit OS for development of Tizen and in long 
> > > > term I don't expect anybody to be using 32-bit. So dropping 
> > > > 32-bit support is just a matter of time. Almost all of the CPU 
> > > > for personal computers produced in the last 5 years are with 
> > > > 64-bit instruction sets. The majority of developers (including 
> > > > me) that still have 32-bit OS on some computers actually have a 
> > > > compatible 64-bit hardware and just have to replace the OS and the dev environment with a 64-bit version.
> > > 
> > > 64bit os's come with a major cost in memory footprint for 
> > > pointers... it's quite measurable. and that doesn't change the fact that:
> > > 
> > > 1. arm is STILL 32bit and will be for a long time still. if tizen 
> > > can't be built ON an arm platform (which is 32bit) then it can't 
> > > self-host on arm... which is embarrassing.
> > > 2. reality is that on x86 we likely might support 32bit tizen 
> > > simply due to the memory footprint issues, and there is still x32 
> > > which is 32bit address space WITH 64bit instructions for max perf 
> > > and best footprint. if we can't work on
> > > x32 or ix86 we can't self host. embarrassing.
> > > 3. you do know that intel mobile chips (for tablets/phones) are 
> > > not 64bit still (i thought baytrail may support 64bit in at least 
> > > some configs, but older ones... no 64bit, and baytrail devices as 
> > > best i know are still not shipping as of today)... :) again - if we can't self host on these...
> > > embarrassing.
> > > 
> > > :)
> > > 
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Leon
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <tizen at rasterman.com> 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > General mailing list
> > > General at lists.tizen.org
> > > https://lists.tizen.org/listinfo/general
> > _______________________________________________
> > General mailing list
> > General at lists.tizen.org
> > https://lists.tizen.org/listinfo/general
> 
> --
> Best Regards,
> Artem Bityutskiy
> 
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